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As Texas farm owners square off with TransCanada, pipeline opponents see an opening

EnergyWire -- A ruling from Judge Tom Rugg isn't expected until at least Sept. 24. But comments the judge made during yesterday's hearing suggest that a recent ruling by the state Supreme Court against Denbury Resources over a different pipeline will weigh heavily on his decision.

Holland estimates that there are more than 50 pipelines crossing his property. He's challenged only two companies requesting access - Denbury and now TransCanada - because those companies' pipelines heavily restricted access to his own property once they are in place.

"All the other companies that we dealt with bore their pipelines under our canals," Holland said. "It's relatively easy to do today, it's not terribly expensive, and you bring it below the surface; therefore, you don't have the situation where if a pipeline

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Submitted Sep 15, 2012 By: Martinman

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Martinman Champion Author Mississippi Posts:14,744 Points:2,094,805 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Sep 17, 2012 10:20:47 AM Ignore Martinman Report Abuse LetemEatCake from Oklahoma City posted... "Nicely said Martin, "...And that's exactly all the Texas Railroad Commission has ever done - is act as the industry's 'rubber-stamp' to meet the requirements of Texas Law - regardless of its impact on Texas landowners, or even the ethnics and morality of doing as it has done." ----- Oh, I am fully aware. I use to live there, and was later twice stationed in Texas. [Edited by: Martinman at 9/17/2012 11:21:25 AM EST]
TustinDad Champion Author Orange County Posts:4,307 Points:908,765 Joined:Feb 2008	Message Posted: Sep 16, 2012 9:40:47 AM Ignore TustinDad Report Abuse TXryder wrote: "TransCanada is a load of liars! The Kochstone XL needs to take a hike, seriously. If they will not comply to land owner satisfaction, then don't mess with Texas. Koch Brothers Positioned To Be Big Winners If Keystone XL Pipeline Is Approved" Don't you realize that as long as it isn't Soros, it is perfectly fine to have private parties benefit from Government decisions?
LetemEatCake Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:5,615 Points:1,207,430 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 11:17:11 PM Ignore LetemEatCake Report Abuse Nicely said Martin, "...And that's exactly all the Texas Railroad Commission has ever done - is act as the industry's 'rubber-stamp' to meet the requirements of Texas Law - regardless of its impact on Texas landowners, or even the ethnics and morality of doing as it has done. TransCanada knows this. And that is why it has been low-balling Texas landowners. It is why TransCanada refuses to do what seems to be the morally and ethically responsible thing to do. Because 'by law', TransCanada can."
PDQBlues Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,084 Points:1,450,275 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 8:19:14 PM Ignore PDQBlues Report Abuse I will continue to cheer for the rights and liberties for the US citizen over the corporate fascism and greed every time.
ExplorerWA Champion Author Washington Posts:4,093 Points:799,200 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 5:01:57 PM Ignore ExplorerWA Report Abuse Lawsuits and appeals are going to last for years.
boldrph Champion Author Topeka Posts:18,387 Points:3,453,590 Joined:Oct 2002	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:56:32 PM Ignore boldrph Report Abuse omg! i thought everyone LOVED the transcanada pipeline!
YaBassa Champion Author Michigan Posts:2,440 Points:519,050 Joined:Nov 2011	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 10:00:25 AM Ignore YaBassa Report Abuse Good luck Texas farm owners!
leraar2 Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:3,774 Points:789,630 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 9:18:34 AM Ignore leraar2 Report Abuse seems a change in the texas constitution is called for.
md11capt Champion Author Denver Posts:3,558 Points:711,630 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 9:06:11 AM Ignore md11capt Report Abuse Major pushback to The Pipeline to the Fareast.
merlinCO Champion Author Colorado Posts:1,650 Points:343,345 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 8:55:14 AM Ignore merlinCO Report Abuse Build the refineries in Canada and keep the oil here.
Martinman Champion Author Mississippi Posts:14,744 Points:2,094,805 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 8:13:59 AM Ignore Martinman Report Abuse TIGERPAW46 from Florida posted... "He may have a valid argument. Why can't They put the pipes deeper if the other oil pipes were buried deeper. If placing the pipes deeper would allow him to move equipment across them to access the rest of his property & lessen the risk of a leak running into the waterways across his land the court should concur." ----- Because that's not how the Texas Code is written. The condemnation process under Texas Code only provides for basically rubber-stamping the Writ of Prossession filing - is the pipeline defined as a 'common courier' by the Texas Railroad Commission T-4 filing? The judge essentially only has legal authority to follow Texas law, since the Texas Railroad Commission has 'determined' that TransCanada is a 'common courier' under the process as set forth in the Texas State Code. That is the loophole Denbury Green Pipeline attempted to abuse under the Texas Code. And it was a contributing factor in why the Texas Supreme Court overturned and remanded the ruling to the lower Texas court. This is one of several loopholes in the Texas Code, expressedly setup to simplify the condemnation process against the landowner. The company applying as a 'common courier' has no verification process, no determination hearing, no means of validating whether the concern qualifies under Texas Code. Given the Texas Railroad Commission's well established history of pandering to industry concerns, they have no requirement to validate the company filing as a 'commmon courier' is valid. All the Texas Railroad Commission is required to do by law, is to provide the T-4 form, and then process that form. It is not required to check what the concern files on the Form, let alone verify its validity. And that's exactly all the Texas Railroad Commission has ever done - is act as the industry's 'rubber-stamp' to meet the requirements of Texas Law - regardless of its impact on Texas landowners, or even the ethnics and morality of doing as it has done. TransCanada knows this. And that is why it has been low-balling Texas landowners. It is why TransCanada refuses to do what seems to be the morally and ethically responsible thing to do. Because 'by law', TransCanada can. . [Edited by: Martinman at 9/15/2012 9:18:06 AM EST]
jcotaxi Champion Author South Bend Posts:1,770 Points:362,030 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 8:04:20 AM Ignore jcotaxi Report Abuse Some companies use good judjment, while a few just want to screw the public for whatever they can, as quickly as they can. Almost sounds like rape.
Wizrd03 Champion Author Illinois Posts:8,162 Points:1,634,285 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 7:55:26 AM Ignore Wizrd03 Report Abuse TransCanada is not a good neighbor. They are screwing property owners and need to be stopped with their practices in Texas using 100 year old land condemnation rules and placing undue restrictions on landowners and their property use
Norm10 Champion Author British Columbia Posts:3,342 Points:162,925 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 7:09:10 AM Ignore Norm10 Report Abuse Texans love Iranian crude!
greywolves Champion Author Las Vegas Posts:8,681 Points:2,430,175 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 4:31:48 AM Ignore greywolves Report Abuse it is tougher to be just, than it is to be expedient
repseng Sophomore Author Twin Cities Posts:165 Points:14,940 Joined:Sep 2012	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 3:52:22 AM Ignore repseng Report Abuse Ok
TXryder Champion Author Texas Posts:2,725 Points:435,655 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 1:53:33 AM Ignore TXryder Report Abuse Koch is a top speculator and price manipulator of crude prices
TXryder Champion Author Texas Posts:2,725 Points:435,655 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 1:46:08 AM Ignore TXryder Report Abuse TransCanada is a load of liars! The Kochstone XL needs to take a hike, seriously. If they will not comply to land owner satisfaction, then don't mess with Texas. . Koch Brothers Positioned To Be Big Winners If Keystone XL Pipeline Is Approved http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/206467-house-democrats-spell-keystone-k-o-c-h [Edited by: TXryder at 9/15/2012 2:52:11 AM EST]
teafortwo Champion Author Washington Posts:22,139 Points:1,387,995 Joined:Feb 2009	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 1:45:11 AM Ignore teafortwo Report Abuse Private property rights are something Americans need to work together protect.
texasvet Champion Author Texas Posts:3,839 Points:360,875 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 1:32:10 AM Ignore texasvet Report Abuse A perfect example of a situation when eminent domain should't automatically rule. The pipeline can very easily be buried deep enough to avoid the problems cited, and even if the landowner lost the suit, the pipeline company should do it anyway.
menagerie1013 Champion Author San Diego Posts:2,365 Points:691,490 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 1:18:49 AM Ignore menagerie1013 Report Abuse Denbury should be able to say what crosses his land and be able to retain full access to his property.
Scoutca All-Star Author Orange County Posts:525 Points:1,588,160 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 1:17:42 AM Ignore Scoutca Report Abuse Sounds like a real mess, hope the courts help to settle it fairly for the landowner without causeing the companies to have to pay through the nose!! That just gets passed on to the consumers!!
Bud122CA Champion Author California Posts:7,481 Points:1,608,025 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 1:15:45 AM Ignore Bud122CA Report Abuse Humm???
Volvodude04 Champion Author Fresno Posts:2,319 Points:275,850 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 1:12:42 AM Ignore Volvodude04 Report Abuse Ok
Suzzoom Champion Author Nevada Posts:2,378 Points:508,090 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 1:11:27 AM Ignore Suzzoom Report Abuse A lot of property owners sell or lease water and/or mineral rights. However, that should not harm the proterty owner in any way.
LBarouf Rookie Author Ottawa Posts:74 Points:148,850 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 1:10:19 AM Ignore LBarouf Report Abuse My tank of gas does not like sand.
59glide All-Star Author New Haven Posts:858 Points:1,050,775 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 1:02:03 AM Ignore 59glide Report Abuse The Gov. will just take it.
Vette1967 Champion Author Albany Posts:5,982 Points:1,278,925 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 1:01:44 AM Ignore Vette1967 Report Abuse The landowners shouldn't have to take hit on property values in the name of corporate greed.
sprocketsplines Champion Author Washington Posts:1,697 Points:863,565 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:59:00 AM Ignore sprocketsplines Report Abuse From a common sense perspective, the farmers should be able to retain full use of their property for farming and it appears that all the other companies were able to accommodate this requirement.
Quick68 Champion Author Columbus Posts:8,264 Points:1,228,725 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:55:15 AM Ignore Quick68 Report Abuse A man should have the right to control what goes into or on his property. He pays taxes on it. Not in America any more because the government owns everything we pay tax on. This (America) is no longer a free country and it will get worse because of all the greed & corruption.
BobD2009 Champion Author Long Island Posts:7,004 Points:1,242,710 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:54:32 AM Ignore BobD2009 Report Abuse Time will tell Sept. 24.
TIGERPAW46 Champion Author Florida Posts:7,141 Points:1,358,605 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:54:10 AM Ignore TIGERPAW46 Report Abuse He may have a valid argument. Why can't They put the pipes deeper if the other oil pipes were buried deeper. If placing the pipes deeper would allow him to move equipment across them to access the rest of his property & lessen the risk of a leak running into the waterways across his land the court should concur.
12766 Champion Author New York Posts:2,458 Points:1,486,340 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:50:08 AM Ignore 12766 Report Abuse OK
hogfan24 Champion Author Arkansas Posts:1,996 Points:505,150 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:50:05 AM Ignore hogfan24 Report Abuse Ol
pachukdog1 Champion Author Pensacola Posts:1,752 Points:378,475 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:49:31 AM Ignore pachukdog1 Report Abuse nice
kitty1750 Champion Author Kitchener-Waterloo Posts:2,199 Points:470,675 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:46:17 AM Ignore kitty1750 Report Abuse I agree PrinceLH......keep it in Canada and refine it here. Aside from that, the land owner always loses. Gov't can force them to sell whether they want to or not. I've seen it happen here enough times. We all think we own our land but do we really???
LostToo Champion Author Illinois Posts:4,392 Points:975,315 Joined:May 2009	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:46:08 AM Ignore LostToo Report Abuse WoW! 50 Pipelines? Thats crazy! But I bet he likes those things when payday rolls around.
Ahking Champion Author Orange County Posts:3,517 Points:605,400 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:42:26 AM Ignore Ahking Report Abuse ok
quasar502 Champion Author Lansing Posts:3,593 Points:804,050 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:41:47 AM Ignore quasar502 Report Abuse NObody wants one of these in their own back yard. Me included, but I have one about 2 miles away.
boatfloyd Champion Author Jacksonville Posts:1,733 Points:390,900 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:40:37 AM Ignore boatfloyd Report Abuse Whatever.
frostyWV Champion Author West Virginia Posts:2,339 Points:519,235 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:38:51 AM Ignore frostyWV Report Abuse you can't please everybody.
miiike572 All-Star Author Phoenix Posts:798 Points:527,540 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:33:44 AM Ignore miiike572 Report Abuse Nasty business
Tigercat88 Champion Author North Carolina Posts:3,212 Points:619,790 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:32:18 AM Ignore Tigercat88 Report Abuse It is his right to get More.
sneadmd Sophomore Author Dayton Posts:217 Points:221,975 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:29:09 AM Ignore sneadmd Report Abuse Interesting
REVLAW Champion Author San Antonio Posts:10,445 Points:2,009,195 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:28:09 AM Ignore REVLAW Report Abuse The "Great Texas Land Grab". Sounds like a good name for a movie. Evil oil and all its pollution stealing land owner property and rights. I hope the judge in this case is not a democrat. But, we know how to take care of liberal judges in Texas.
NedW Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:5,630 Points:1,145,170 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:27:50 AM Ignore NedW Report Abuse I've had that same idea, Prince LH. Only, on this side of the border.
PetroScopper Champion Author Houston Posts:6,634 Points:1,552,840 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:25:49 AM Ignore PetroScopper Report Abuse You can't blame the man for standing up for his rights on his own property...
2parrots Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:1,567 Points:347,490 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:24:21 AM Ignore 2parrots Report Abuse Bury the pipeline & pay the landowner
rd2000 Champion Author Florida Posts:3,587 Points:689,920 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:24:07 AM Ignore rd2000 Report Abuse ok
dlzastera Champion Author Minnesota Posts:4,520 Points:1,025,295 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 12:22:27 AM Ignore dlzastera Report Abuse I'm feeling for them.