DrLyon
Champion Author
Michigan
Posts:4,465
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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2010 9:45:17 PM
Gear up for car recharge....
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honda0105
Champion Author
Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 8:52:13 PM
Gas_Buzzer: I am also not brainwashed by Faux Noise and other audio-visuals.
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honda0105
Champion Author
Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 8:50:42 PM
DonKofAK: most people will keep their TV AND computers running all night.. not to mention their electric sucking air conditionings.. hmmm.. my last month's electric consumption was less than 450 kWh and that is WITH me running the AC and living comfortably.
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DonKofAK
All-Star Author
Anchorage
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Points:591,185
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 7:39:49 PM
The amount of electricity consumed by re-charging a Chevy Volt battery is less than a buck, according to my electric utility. That does not indicate a substantial amount of energy consumed overnight.
You can probably make up for much of that load by unplugging your audio-visual equipment and home computer setup each night.
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TomJDriver
Champion Author
London
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Points:302,340
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 3:19:22 PM
Old new and a poorly written worst possible scenario "story".
From the story:
"It's fine if your neighbor isn't doing it, too. If you have a whole neighborhood (recharging), the transformer on the pole isn't going to take it," he says.
1) How many of us have houses built in the last, oh, 25 years with hydro poles? I think transformers on the ground carry more current. Don't they?
2) If on a pole, you won't do it at the same time more than once, will you?
[Edited by: TomJDriver at 9/3/2010 4:21:37 PM EST]
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Lasing
Champion Author
Colorado Springs
Posts:11,754
Points:1,848,400
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 9:57:28 AM
"The Michigan Public Service Commission said today that it has approved an application from DTE Energy Co.’s Detroit Edison unit."
"The program offers two options: a lower, off-peak rate customers can use to charge the vehicles, or a monthly flat rate of $40 per vehicle."
Another $40 a month does NOT double my electric bill, but it cuts about 2/3 out of my gas bill.
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remay
Champion Author
Houston
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 7:34:55 AM
"...electric vehicles will have a serious appetite for kilowatts..."
No doubt!
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Gas_Buzzer
Champion Author
South Carolina
Posts:11,870
Points:2,169,620
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 7:00:04 AM
honda0105, you have been FOOLED by the liberals, "greenies" and "tree huggers". There are huge oil reserves in this country. The problem is that the above groups have encouraged our socialistic government to place producing locations into US government land reserves.
Alaska is full of oil but they want to limit drilling. Most of the Western states are full of oil but again the liberals have "banked" these rich areas into the so-called land banks. Over 50% of the lands in NV, UT, AZ, NM and CO are in these protective areas.
You bought in to the Al Gore scare. Pitiful.
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ENORMS
Champion Author
Colorado
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 5:42:55 AM
All of this is true!
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honda0105
Champion Author
Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 5:10:55 AM
Tigerpaw: as fossil fuels become less and less easy to reach (tar sands, deep water drilling, mountain top removal mining, fracking, etc.) with the added C-tax, they will reach well above any price that solar and other means are costing. As more people adopt solar panels for example, the per watt cost drops significantly. We've seen that with every consumer commodity - from computers to cell phones.
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honda0105
Champion Author
Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 5:09:05 AM
LostToo: the whole point is to get away from fossil fuel. Guess that little fact passed you by while you were blinking.
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honda0105
Champion Author
Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 5:06:25 AM
saturn, how is solar (post-production/post-installation) creating pollution?
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honda0105
Champion Author
Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 5:05:10 AM
Neko: blackout = no power, whole neighborhood is dark ("black") at night due to no electricity.
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NekoSJG
Champion Author
San Jose
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 3:01:37 AM
AC Propulsion made their inverter bi-directional so one could charge at night and then put the power back on the grid during the day.
Now if you have a Smart Meter you might want to check if it has a remote disconnect feature. Just like it sounds, it allows the utility to disconnect your power with a radio signal. So no more brown outs - just blackouts and whatever term is used for power always on...
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Kamakani
Champion Author
Hawaii
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 1:17:09 AM
A few solar panels on the roof and a wind turbine ought to do the trick.
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Saturn93
Champion Author
Salt Lake City
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 1:00:25 AM
EV's shift the location of pollution, not eliminate it.
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Beau2140
Champion Author
New York
Posts:5,956
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:58:39 AM
Time will tell.
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genef01
Champion Author
Nashville
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:51:29 AM
Another reason to avoid EVs.
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jadeusa
Champion Author
Dallas
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:51:10 AM
will bring about charging at certain hours (night).
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Beboper
Champion Author
Virginia
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:48:27 AM
old news
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vincenzo328
Sophomore Author
Los Angeles
Posts:201
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:46:46 AM
this is where feeding back into the grid will be helpful, like solar panels
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BobD2009
Champion Author
Long Island
Posts:4,602
Points:778,735
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:44:21 AM
After trying to perfect the electric car for over 100 years without success, it's hard to have any confidence in them. It's folly that insiders make big money at.
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UseLessGasFolks
Champion Author
Iowa
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:43:30 AM
We must get more efficient on all energy fronts.
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TIGERPAW46
Champion Author
Florida
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:41:30 AM
While your at it don't forget the carbon fuel penalty for petroleum and coal will raise the cost of electricity also. Much elect. is generated with coal as the least expensive method. Even as they change to solar, wind or etc, those green sources are projected to be even higher than the carbon TAX.
As for the road tax the US Gov. already has vehicles with GPS systems they are experimenting with for monitoring road usage and charging / taxing that way. They could just use estimated avg. which would be unfair to some or mandatory mileage reports at mandated check periods or with annual tax filing. You might have to get an official report on the odometer from a certified dealer etc.
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HA4CNN
Champion Author
Toronto
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:36:24 AM
It is time to make cars more efficient like constant speed diesel electric vehicles.
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LostToo
Champion Author
Illinois
Posts:3,131
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:35:15 AM
Strap a gas powered generator onto the cars roof and then you can charge it as you drive.
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neemund
Champion Author
Seattle
Posts:4,169
Points:1,087,520
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:32:21 AM
Sure, you might be able to save some money on gas, but might double your electric bill. Unless you can get some heavy duty extension cords and hook up to a neighbor's house in the middle of the night.
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Hambone61
Champion Author
Oregon
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:30:28 AM
I never did like algore!
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hubcapLA
Champion Author
Louisiana
Posts:2,579
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:30:01 AM
Some how, some where, the consumer has to pay for the energy. My guess is that in the long run electrics will cost a great deal more to operate than gas vehicles if you add in the $$'s for charging and the cost of replacing the batteries not to mention the initial cost being so high.
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CobraLeader
Champion Author
New Jersey
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:29:25 AM
Why not? Everything else does!
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beachbumCA
Champion Author
Riverside
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:28:52 AM
How will the electric cars pay the road (gas) tax?
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AKmailman
Champion Author
Alaska
Posts:3,313
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:28:29 AM
so far, it's 40k for the car and double your electric bill
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250FORD
Champion Author
Minnesota
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:27:16 AM
I don't know about brown outs but it WILL increase electric rates for everyone accross the nation.
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roadrunnerMO
Champion Author
Kansas
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:23:42 AM
Good points...
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9C1
Champion Author
Chicago
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:18:55 AM
Plugging into the power grid at night will, in most cases be no issue. Power usage in homes after 6 or 7 PM is less than in the daylight hours and commercial use is less still at night. That is why tiered electric rates are lowest at night.
There will not be millions of electric vehicles all at once. Relax, it will take some time to build and market them -- and form all the comments on this board they will not sell too many anyway. Not many of you seem to want to pay for them.
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TIGERPAW46
Champion Author
Florida
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:11:22 AM
If you think it's unlikely that you will overload the house try this common occurrence. Say you arrive home post work And plug in your vehicle to recharge. Your spouse is cooking dinner in the oven with some boilers on the stove top. You jump in the shower to clean up before dinner, so the hot water heater kicks on. it's still fairly hot outside, or cold, so the ac or heater kicks on. Now get yourself some resources and calculate how many amps your drawing and see what it comes up to. You can try tossing a couple kids in there with computers, & a good sound system stereo going etc if you like. Nope, I'm not going to tell you the answer it's better if you check for yourself.
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craigsf38
Champion Author
Rochester
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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:01:47 AM
I am sure that even murphy's law will hit from time to time
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TIGERPAW46
Champion Author
Florida
Posts:5,173
Points:968,810
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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:55:46 PM
I'm glad at least one company is being honest about the electric and hybrids. They are not sending out false info but admitting what many others know is true. EVen some overseas companies have admitted the same, that the EV are too early for widespread use. it's not just too many in one neighborhood but EVen just your house circuitry. Remember the wiring in houses is designed to handle typical usage for most people with some extra capacity. Newer houses generally have greater capacity. HowEVer EVen if you plug in too many appliances you currently have you can trip the circuit breaker. The below is just a quick approximate and it's been a while since I've done much electronics repair so don't hold me to the exact figures; but it's just to give some idea of the problem to those who may not know hardly anything about the process. I know others here could give more detail but hopefully for some this isn't a waste of time.
An average plug usually only has a 12-15 ga wire, that wire joins to sEVeral other wall plugs and sometimes to the ceiling lighting. the more central wires will be maybe 10-12 ga. More than one room may join together into the semi-main wire to the circuit box. Each wire then usually goes through a 30 amp breaker. Used to be fuses, but most states want insure houses with fuses anymore. Heavy draw appliances etc are usually on a separate wire. dryers and stoves for example are on single 30amp or more circuit. Point is their is a definite limit to each circuit carrying ability, and the overall draw for the structure. A trailer pole for example may only carry a maximum of 100 amps to the entire trailer all circuits.
You will likely need a separate circuit wich only your vehicle plugs into. Then it will still have to be wired sufficient gauge and safety breaker and can't exceed the total house input from the attached distribution box. Has anyone read how many amps these vehicles take to charge and what their start-up draw is. That's to say when the charger is actuated or plugged in. The surge on beginning is always somewhat higher.
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scrounger
Champion Author
Vancouver
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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:52:14 PM
a latent possibility
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Prodaddy
Champion Author
Houston
Posts:6,083
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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:50:48 PM
How much current it draw
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camel1
Champion Author
Minnesota
Posts:6,065
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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:46:59 PM
recharging and its toll on the electric grid is a definite issue that needs to be resolved.
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JettaKnight
Champion Author
Toronto
Posts:1,355
Points:1,716,035
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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:45:45 PM
visitor_2
Orlando
"No where in the article is the Amperage draw"
Due to the fact that it's different for every manufacturer and if it's a quick-charge or a trickle charge... or that the article's author didn't bother to research the range of charging currents in systems available right now.
More likely, it's because the author ONLY quoted a single representative at Ford and their stance right now tells me something about their recharging technology... or lack of it. No one else in the entire automotive industry NOR power generation & distribution industries were interviewed.
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Bus561
Champion Author
Lexington
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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:44:32 PM
I would venture to say that these things will more than double your electric bill and be more draining than a central AC unit.
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TBONE3
Champion Author
Pennsylvania
Posts:6,408
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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:43:35 PM
I just do not believe we are ready for the transition to electric vehicles. Apartment dwellers will have a problem hooking up at home, the power grids probably can not support the additional drain until they get some nuclear plants built and so on. You can build them but if you can't charge them, who can use them?
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northeast2
Champion Author
New York
Posts:2,687
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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:35:23 PM
"Recharging the batteries with solar power will not be possible during overnight hours when most electric cars are recharged."
Um, that was a joke, right?
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MahopacJack
Champion Author
New York
Posts:5,908
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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:32:28 PM
The Law of Unintended Consequences raises it's ugly head!
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jrsva
Champion Author
Virginia
Posts:7,164
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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:31:19 PM
“No where in the article is the Amperage draw”
There are several different possibilities. Charging off a standard household (110V) circuit will draw ~15 amps and take several hours to recharge. Faster charging on a 220V circuit will draw either 30A or 60A, depending on what type of charging unit is in the car and what type of circuit is installed in the house.
Buyers of electric cars should also invest in solar panels and a battery bank in order to recharge without over loading the grid.
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dcjauburn
Champion Author
Sacramento
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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:31:06 PM
That is one of the reasons that I have had solar panels added to my house. They have a 30 year warrantee, by the way (mapelle621).
[Edited by: dcjauburn at 9/3/2010 12:31:42 AM EST]
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joel27nc
Champion Author
Raleigh
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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:28:23 PM
Just remember not to charge your cell phone at the same time.
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mapelle621
Rookie Author
Montreal
Posts:71
Points:24,450
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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:22:22 PM
yeah I definetly want to buy solar cells that will fail in a few years and will cost a lot just to have engough cells to get a full charge after 10 hours in daylight (because we all work and travel at night). and lets take a look at some irony : some places make electricity from petroleum. why not just get a gas car, it'll save time and money
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